Thread: sex and natty testosterone

just had this emailed to me, interesting. anyone care to comment on this?


I have a question for you... "Does s-e-x LOWER test0sterone... and your ability to build muscle?" We all know that raising your "T" levels canDRAMATICALLY increase your libido as well as pack on layers of thick new muscle, right? So is your "love life" holding you back from some KILLER gains in the gym? I mean, what about the "old school" BOXING rule of not having s-e-x the night before your fight? Was it because it took the "lion" out of the fighter? Made him WEAKER? Actually, this was a question that bodybuilding expert and "hormone enthusiast", Jeff Anderson took head on. And he's the PERFECT guy for the job! After all, Jeff's best selling program "OptimumAnabolics" IS focused primarily on naturally increasing your body's levels of Growth Horm0ne and test0sterone (by as much as 1,000%!) ======================================== But it wasn't EASY finding an answer! ======================================== After tracking down several endocrinologists and urologists, all of them just shrugged their shoulders and told Jeff they "didn't know the answer". Sheeesh! You'd think guys who are supposed to be experts in healing E.D. and low "T" levels would have at least a CLUE about this, right? So Jeff dug deeper... He called up a friend of his who is a aworld-renowned researcher in hormone replacement therapy and after a longdiscussion, they came up with the DEFINITIVE answer... YES! s-e-x CAN reduce your "T" levels AND your muscle gains! I'll explain WHY in a second, but... ======================================== Here's what's MOST important... ======================================== I'm ALSO going to give you a SECRET to not giving up your love life in order to have MORE MUSCLE! Ok, follow along... Test0sterone is a VERY important hormone for gaining muscle. You knew that, right? Well in order for your body to optimize output, you MUST have enough of the mineral ZINC in your body. Zinc is an essential nutrient for your internal "T-Factory" and your body uses it up very rapidly but doesn't store very much in reserve. Therefore, zinc must be replenished DAILY, but... ...our diets these days are naturally DEVOID ofzinc due to our poor choices AND the degradation of our food supply from poor farming methods (don't get me started!). ======================================== But here's the kicker... ======================================== We men also lose zinc during S-E-X! We lose up to 1mg of zinc for each "happy ending"we have... and even MORE while sweating (so sweaty s-e-x is basically a "zinc SLAYER"! ;-) Ok, so if you've been following along... Sweaty S-e-x = Zinc Deficiency = Low Test Levels = Less Muscle Ok, now the solution (and NO... the answer is NOTto stop having sweaty s-e-x! ;-) First, test0sterone is a "supply and demand"hormone so you'd damn well better be using a program that triggers natural "T" release. Actually, this is the entire basis of Jeff's"Optimum Anabolics" program because he reveals a unique method for naturally increasing test0sterone and growth horm0ne through what he calls "horm0ne triggering".

Bottom line, you MUST be providing your body withthe "need" for more "T". That's what Jeff's program was SPECIFICALLYdesigned to do with his breakthrough "triggering" technique. Fortunately, having more s-e-x ALSO creates a "need" for more "T" so it's just a matter of SUPPORTING your own natural production and Jeff covers this in detail in his book. (BTW... feel free to use this excuse with yourpartner if things have been a bit "slow" lately - "Really honey! It's for my health... LOL) Next, make sure you're supplementing with about15-25mg each day of zinc picolinate. It's best to take it at night on an emptystomach, right before you go to bed. This will make sure you have adequate levels ofthe "raw nutrient" to optimize natural test0steroneproduction... ...and of course, BUILD MORE MUSCLE!

Apart from the blatant sales crap, there is a slim degree of truth in there.

Yes, Zinc is excreted during sex.
Yes, Zinc is a key mineral for libido/testosterone health
Yes, many men (and women) are Zinc deficient
Does this mean that sex reduces testosterone enought to hinder muscle development? A friggin long bow in my view.

As they alluded to, the body is a supply and demand mechanism, and depleting testosterone, via sex, will trigger a replenish response, largely negating the notion of diminished muscle gain.

I have long recommended that men supplement with Zinc (and magnesium and a stack of other things) if they want optimum sexual and testosterone health.

I get these newsletters too, and by and large they're self-serving sales pitches, based on very loose science.

In my personal experience i can vouch and say ejaculating dose lower test....

but my study on myself is not a really controlled or a concrete one.

As some of you know i have natural low test levels around 12nmol (10 - 36) went to a different dr and he said the only way to accurately do test bloods is to abstain from sex and wanking for 7 days then do 2 bloods one day after anther so i did and my results came back 20nmol which is average.

So what does this say yes test will go high after 7 days of abstaining but who's really gonna do that. from the studies i've read after 7 days of abstaining you test will raise 150% but after the 7th day will lower to it's normal levels.

When i thought about it abit i thought how could a dr say it's at a perfectly normal level when the level it gonna be at in real life is the previous one of 12nmol.
I've also had my zinc levels tested and they were above average so there's nothing wrong there and i don't supp with zinc.

7 days without eh, i went 10 once,i got circumcised at 23yo, ouch. after 10 days i had the most gentle wank and blew one big shot from my belly button to my shoulder about as thick as my thumb. first root afterwards was interesting too.

for anyone considering doing this i would seriously suggest DONT.

i used to use zma and tribulus when i went through the 'try every goddamn supplement available' phase before i naturally progressed to steroids.

Originally Posted by micksnowdog

7 days without eh, i went 10 once,i got circumcised at 23yo, ouch.

may i ask why?

Well i'm a virgin so i don't really have a problem. However I do not think that lowering testosterone due to ejaculation would have a significant impact on gains, unless you are lazy in the first place.

The key to gains is staying in an anabolic state and staying AWAY from catabolism. If your testosterone is 12nmols/l and you're either dirty bulking or lazy bulking it's really not going to benefit you terribly abstaining from sex to get an extra 8nmols/l.

Moreover; what are the downstream impacts of abstaining from sex. I can think of a few including stress levels; how wil stress impact your gains? Will the gains from the additional testosterone be offset by the increase in stress levels? What about your relationships?

Lastly; testosterone by itself cannot give a good indication of growing capacity. We need to consider Test levels, free test, SHBG etc etc. If you have a good balance (high test/low SHBG), experience an intense workout, and eat frequently to stay in a anabolic state you will gain.

I have been tested a few times. 13nmols/l test with SHBG @ 13 also. I am an Ectomorph and find it difficult to gain. However I have gained, albeit slowly. When i worked REALLY hard, and ate REALLY well... people asked me if i was on steroids. I wasn't (At that stage).

I would personally never give up sex for the extra test... and i was just kidding; i'm not a virgin.

Originally Posted by plexus

Well i'm a virgin so i don't really have a problem. However I do not think that lowering testosterone due to ejaculation would have a significant impact on gains, unless you are lazy in the first place.

The key to gains is staying in an anabolic state and staying AWAY from catabolism. If your testosterone is 12nmols/l and you're either dirty bulking or lazy bulking it's really not going to benefit you terribly abstaining from sex to get an extra 8nmols/l.

Moreover; what are the downstream impacts of abstaining from sex. I can think of a few including stress levels; how wil stress impact your gains? Will the gains from the additional testosterone be offset by the increase in stress levels? What about your relationships?

Lastly; testosterone by itself cannot give a good indication of growing capacity. We need to consider Test levels, free test, SHBG etc etc. If you have a good balance (high test/low SHBG), experience an intense workout, and eat frequently to stay in a anabolic state you will gain.

I have been tested a few times. 13nmols/l test with SHBG @ 13 also. I am an Ectomorph and find it difficult to gain. However I have gained, albeit slowly. When i worked REALLY hard, and ate REALLY well... people asked me if i was on steroids. I wasn't (At that stage).

I would personally never give up sex for the extra test... and i was just kidding; i'm not a virgin.

Agree with most of this. But test levels are secondary to SHBG. The impact on free test by SHBG will render very high levels almost useless. Whereas very modest test levels with very low SHBG will yield significantly better results. Remember, the total amount of free test is very low, regardless of total test, relatively speaking, so the focus on test optimisation should be on SHBG levels.

I fully agree.

For the benefit of others, testosterone is always in a state of flux, only 2% is generally available for muscle building. For "muscle building" to occur we need two Testosterone molecules, each binded to their respective Androgen Receptors creating an ARE - Androgen Response Element. Even whilst the Testosterone molecules are binding to the androgen receptors they can be stolen by the body, failing to make the ARE.

Once the ARE is created gene transcription can occur and you're on your way. With high levels of SHBG the amount of free test is limited. So you can see why it's important to have low SHBG and high test. Even with lowish test, a low SHBG is great. Low test and high SHBG is terrible :P

Originally Posted by Stinky

may i ask why?

foreskin was too small for my cock, it kept splitting, just lil tears here n there but it was painful and got scabby n shit and made sex and cleaning quite unpleasant. cos i'm a filthy **** i wouldn't give him time to heal.
i saw a urologist when it got pretty bad and he recommended lopping the fucker off. about 30 stitches to tie him around. should have seen how big my cock got when it was full of local anaesthetic, was like the size of a fat when he was soft. they gave me a local and a knock out one too, when i woke up i was showing the nurse and saying fuck its bigger, she's laughin sayin it aint perminant tho.
i woke up 5 times that night with a boner, i was thinking about boxing and work and all kinds of shit like that to get him to relax a lil.
sex definately felt better with him intact, i had to relearn how to fuck too.

Originally Posted by plexus

I would personally never give up sex for the extra test...

fuck no, me neither ,rooting is my favourite thing sometimes on tuesdays

why can i say fick with a u but not slit with a u?

I hope you don't kiss your girlfriend with that mouth lol.

It's funny you mention this i also had a SHGB of 13nmol while my test was at 12nmol also my FSH was 0.8 which below imo is below clinal and LH just 0.1 above clinical @ 1.1.

But when abstaining my test rose to 20.7nmol and along with SHBG to 21nmol while me LH went up to 4.0 and FSH stayed below clinical @ 1.2. While SHBG @ 21nmol is still low it's increased just as much as test levels.

These results are really interesting because it says that yes abstaining will raise test but will also raise SHGB so the raise in test levels will mean not much at all for muscle gains....

So i guess we can all sex and wank away guilt free knowing that it probably won't affect your gains at all.

Originally Posted by plexus

Well i'm a virgin so i don't really have a problem. However I do not think that lowering testosterone due to ejaculation would have a significant impact on gains, unless you are lazy in the first place.

The key to gains is staying in an anabolic state and staying AWAY from catabolism. If your testosterone is 12nmols/l and you're either dirty bulking or lazy bulking it's really not going to benefit you terribly abstaining from sex to get an extra 8nmols/l.

Moreover; what are the downstream impacts of abstaining from sex. I can think of a few including stress levels; how wil stress impact your gains? Will the gains from the additional testosterone be offset by the increase in stress levels? What about your relationships?

Lastly; testosterone by itself cannot give a good indication of growing capacity. We need to consider Test levels, free test, SHBG etc etc. If you have a good balance (high test/low SHBG), experience an intense workout, and eat frequently to stay in a anabolic state you will gain.

I have been tested a few times. 13nmols/l test with SHBG @ 13 also. I am an Ectomorph and find it difficult to gain. However I have gained, albeit slowly. When i worked REALLY hard, and ate REALLY well... people asked me if i was on steroids. I wasn't (At that stage).

I would personally never give up sex for the extra test... and i was just kidding; i'm not a virgin.

Originally Posted by M1CH43L

It's funny you mention this i also had a SHGB of 13nmol while my test was at 12nmol also my FSH was 0.8 which below imo is below clinal and LH just 0.1 above clinical @ 1.1.

But when abstaining my test rose to 20.7nmol and along with SHBG to 21nmol while me LH went up to 4.0 and FSH stayed below clinical @ 1.2. While SHBG @ 21nmol is still low it's increased just as much as test levels.

These results are really interesting because it says that yes abstaining will raise test but will also raise SHGB so the raise in test levels will mean not much at all for muscle gains....

So i guess we can all sex and wank away guilt free knowing that it probably won't affect your gains at all.

i wont feel guilty about it trust me lol

Michael - Interesting results you had there. Even though my test was low, i had quite normal LH & FSH. 4 and 7 respectively...

When on cycle both went below 1.

Michael do you have your albumin tested with both those tests and free testosterone?

Originally Posted by Online Nutrition

Michael do you have your albumin tested with both those tests and free testosterone?

No, unfortunately no albumin in either FBC. Dose it go under any differant names by any chance? (i know some times with bloods they can name the same thing differant names like e2/estrogen/ostrogen ect..)

I did have free test done but from what i've herd it's very inacurate the basic run down of my tests went like this:

i've color coded the different labs cause i know this can also have an influence.

(PAST TESTS)

15/01/09
free test 28.5pmol * (43 - 138)

07/05/09
test 11.3nmol (7.2 - 25)
SHGB 13nmol (8 - 68)
LH 1.1 (1 - 7.0)

01/06/09
free test 32.5pmol * (43 - 138)


(ABSTAINING BLOODS)

20/08/09
test 20nmol (12 - 32)
SHGB 21nmol (15 - 50)
FAI 98.6% (15 - 100)

free test 65pmol (43 - 138)

21/08/09
test 17nmol (12 - 32)
SHGB 21nmol (15 - 50)
FAI 83.8% (15 - 100)

free test 50.6 (43 - 138)

Originally Posted by M1CH43L

No, unfortunately no albumin in either FBC. Dose it go under any differant names by any chance? (i know some times with bloods they can name the same thing differant names like e2/estrogen/ostrogen ect..)

I did have free test done but from what i've herd it's very inacurate the basic run down of my tests went like this:

i've color coded the different labs cause i know this can also have an influence.

(PAST TESTS)

15/01/09
free test 28.5pmol * (43 - 138)

07/05/09
test 11.3nmol (7.2 - 25)
SHGB 13nmol (8 - 68)
LH 1.1 (1 - 7.0)

01/06/09
free test 32.5pmol * (43 - 138)


(ABSTAINING BLOODS)

20/08/09
test 20nmol (12 - 32)
SHGB 21nmol (15 - 50)
FAI 98.6% (15 - 100)

free test 65pmol (43 - 138)

21/08/09
test 17nmol (12 - 32)
SHGB 21nmol (15 - 50)
FAI 83.8% (15 - 100)

free test 50.6 (43 - 138)

fwiw: Free test is a largely discredited test, and some labs won't do it at all.

Albumin is typically tested as part of a Liver Function Test.

Originally Posted by M1CH43L

(PAST TESTS)

15/01/09
free test 28.5pmol * (43 - 138)

07/05/09
test 11.3nmol (7.2 - 25)
SHGB 13nmol (8 - 68)
LH 1.1 (1 - 7.0)

01/06/09
free test 32.5pmol * (43 - 138)


(ABSTAINING BLOODS)

20/08/09
test 20nmol (12 - 32)
SHGB 21nmol (15 - 50)
FAI 98.6% (15 - 100)

free test 65pmol (43 - 138)

21/08/09
test 17nmol (12 - 32)
SHGB 21nmol (15 - 50)
FAI 83.8% (15 - 100)

free test 50.6 (43 - 138)

The different labs is almost irrelevant, because it's the numbers that are important, not ranges.

There is a 15% drop in testosterone from 21/08 to 22/08, whilst SHBG stays constant. Kind of kills off the abstaining theory a little, although there was a significant rise in test from the three months before. Although, that doesn't take into account any other biological responses that may have been happening in that period.

Low test and low SHBG is often better than higher test and higher SHBG. Ideally they should work in reverse order: high test, low SHBG. There's little point in producing more test if it's simply bound by SHBG.

It's hard to reconcile the notion that abstaining has that impact on SHBG. I'd be keen to see any science that supports it.